"Hanau Attacker Had a Connection to Wuppertal" – Radio Wuppertal 107.4

Interview by Radio Wuppertal with Detective Patrick Kurtz Regarding the Hanau Attacker

Sebastian Kaiser from Radio Wuppertal 107.4 interviewed Patrick Kurtz of Kurtz Detective Agency Wuppertal in Barmen two days after the Hanau attack about his connection to the alleged perpetrator Tobias R. The audio recording of the conversation (in German) can be accessed here. A transcript follows below.

Concern of the Later Perpetrator: Mediation of Official Contacts

Radio Wuppertal: "Four months ago, you had a meeting with the Hanau attacker. How did that come about?"

 

Patrick Kurtz: "The attacker had already contacted us in June because he was absolutely keen to have a meeting with me personally. However, that did not take place; instead, he met with an investigator from Unna who works for me. The background to his enquiry was that he was determined to have official contacts mediated, either with the BND or with the MAD or with other authorities, because he believed that there was a secret organisation determining the entire course of world politics and that in Germany only Angela Merkel and the head of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution were aware of it. He wanted to approach these individuals and have contact arranged through us in order to clarify his personal paranoia, his personal conspiracy theories."

 

Radio Wuppertal: "When contact was first established, did you already know that he held these conspiracy theories?"

 

Patrick Kurtz: "He did not mention the conspiracy theories during the initial contact. First of all, he wanted to meet me personally. Logistically, that is usually not possible anyway; I simply have other investigators who handle such preliminary assignment discussions. Accordingly, he was forwarded to other investigators. Most investigators did not wish to accept the matter in any case, whereas my investigator from Unna was very interested – for psychological reasons. He simply wanted to see: what makes such a person tick? We very, very frequently receive such enquiries – from paranoid individuals, from schizophrenic individuals. But he was just that little bit more unusual in that he appeared very eloquent, seemed intelligent and, apart from his theories, which were of course completely confused, showed no signs that he actually possessed violent potential and also, in general, that he was completely insane. One has to state that plainly."

The Impression at the Personal Meeting

Radio Wuppertal: "What impression did he make at the meeting?"

 

Patrick Kurtz: "The meeting took place at Landhaus Dieckmanns in Dortmund. He arrived there wearing a suit, had short hair and looked very well groomed. One would never suspect that something like this lay behind it."

 

Radio Wuppertal: "And he did not appear violent?"

 

Patrick Kurtz: "He did not appear violent in the slightest. He read parts of his 'manifesto' to my investigator. He had the entire 'manifesto' with him. I cannot say whether it corresponds one hundred per cent to what has now been published, but at least in very, very large parts, if not entirely. He read parts of it aloud. However, he apparently deliberately omitted the sections dealing with more explicit incitements to violence and presented the somewhat more harmless passages instead. Yet even from these more harmless passages it was, of course, completely clear to the investigator that the man was suffering from persecutory delusions and that this would not become a productive investigation if we were actually to conclude a contract with him."

 

Radio Wuppertal: "So it remained with that one meeting?"

 

Patrick Kurtz: "It remained with that one meeting, and there were various telephone conversations beforehand before the meeting took place."

Everyday Life in a Detective Agency: Conspiracy Theories in Abundance

Radio Wuppertal: "These conspiracy theories and this persecutory delusion are one thing. Did he express himself in a racist manner in any way?"

 

Patrick Kurtz: "I cannot say whether he expressed himself in a racist manner. As I said, I was not personally present at the meeting. I would have to enquire again with my colleague."

 

Radio Wuppertal: "You already mentioned it, perhaps a few more sentences on that: This is not unusual for a detective agency – people with conspiracy theories, with persecutory delusions?"

 

Patrick Kurtz: "For us it is not unusual at all that people with psychological disorders call us. We have a counter-surveillance and bug-sweeping department. That in itself naturally invites people who feel persecuted to contact us, because they believe we can detect listening devices that are allegedly installed in their flats, in their vehicles or sometimes even in their heads, in their bodies in general. There are the most extraordinary stories. That is why they approach us. I would say we have that almost every day. With this attacker, there was nothing further to indicate that he would present any particular risk potential compared to the others."

How Last Year’s Contact Was Rediscovered

Radio Wuppertal: "After the attack, when and how did you realise: we had contact with him?"

 

Patrick Kurtz: "This morning, after the 'manifesto' had been published, we realised that we had had contact with him. The investigator noticed that the wording corresponded word for word to what the attacker had presented to him at the meeting at the time. We then reviewed our enquiry lists and indeed came across this individual, who had called us in June requesting a meeting and had then called several more times."

 

Radio Wuppertal: "What did you think when you realised: my detective agency had contact with the attacker?"

 

Patrick Kurtz: "My first thought was that we might now have information that could be relevant to the police. We immediately sought contact with the police. And then, beyond that, that it might also be relevant for the press, and accordingly we are now in discussion."

Could the Act Have Been Foreseen?

Radio Wuppertal: "But you do not have a bad feeling? That perhaps something should or could have been noticed? One probably asks oneself that question. That is an initial human impulse, is it not?"

 

Patrick Kurtz: "Yes. I can fully understand that, as an outsider, one asks oneself this question: should that not have been noticed, given what he described? But if you were here, if you worked here every day and listened to everything that comes in by telephone with the most absurd stories ... If one were truly to take every single one of these stories entirely seriously and say that a report must now be made to the police – they would no longer even pick up the receiver because we would have so many stories to report. That would truly make no sense whatsoever."

Our condolences go to the victims and their families.

Kurtz Investigations Wuppertal

Friedrich-Ebert-Straße 55

D-42103 Wuppertal

Tel.: +49 202 5289 0063

E-Mail: kontakt@kurtz-detektei-wuppertal.de

Web: https://www.kurtz-detektei-wuppertal.de/en

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